Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:41:56 -0700
From: Ken Gunderson <kgunders@teamcool.net>
To: Bill Hacker <wbh@conducive.org>
Cc: des@des.no
Subject: spot on "nut job rant"...
Message-Id: <20080128144156.310f4f67.kgunders@teamcool.net>
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Hey Bill:

Was browsing -current and -stable to see if I could garner any clues
about when 7.0 would make release (not planning to use because it's
obviously not ready for prime time but apparently the ports tree will
remain frozen ad nauseum for anything other than minor commits and it'd
sure be nice to update things like Xfce...) when I ran across this:

<http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2008-January/081970.html>

And I thought; "man, somebody finally has the balls to call it like it
is", and was really looking forward to the response.  Was seriously
disappointed by des's chicken shit reply, however, wh/ironically enough
pretty much proved your thesis. I've historically held a lot of respect
for DES but this knocked him down a couple notches in my book.

I'm tempted to subscribe to -current just so I can follow up. Not as a
developer, obviously, but as someone who's been a long time user - 
since "back in the day" with 2.x when JKH himself my hand and helped
get me sorted out on a few essentials (hhmm... wonder if that's still
archived somewhere??).

It's been a wonderful journey.  I've gained much Unix expertise in the
ensuing years through FreeBSD - having experience with "real" Unix
helped me outshine the Linux weenies when I was hired on at HP.  Now,
however, I am investing serious effort into learning Solaris. Why might
this be? Because I am fsck'ing tired of freebsd-stable being beta
software. Especially w.r.t. file system type issues that Dillion was
citing.

My, my, my, how times have changed.  I realize, that posting to the
list would be a complete waste because they've become a little club of
Arrogant Bastards:

<http://www.arrogantbastard.com/>

But not really.  I've had correspondence with many and they're
basically a bunch of nice guys, dedicated to forwarding FreeBSD.  But
something has gone wrong somewhere since most of the old guard either
left or retired.

Anyhow, hope this finds you well. And I hope 7.0 get released before
spring.  Judging by the bug reports, that's probably a bit overly
optimistic so ports tree will remain frozen.  I think FBSD needs to get
off the overly ambitious quarterly release cycle (when was the last
time a release was not months behind schedule?) and onto something that
is more sustainable, e.g. OBSD bi-annual.

DES, I am cc'ing you on this because, ultimately, I love FreeBSD and,
as a long time user, hope you at least ponder this a bit. I'm fiercely
loyal type of guy - and if I'm basically looking to bail on FBSD what's
that say about some newbie who's just taking a look see?  I mean, just
look at all the problems reported on -stable with 6.3.  This is
supposed to be FreeBSD not Linux!!

-- 
Best regards,

Ken Gunderson

Q: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
A: Why is putting a reply at the top of the message frowned upon?

Return-Path: <wbh@conducive.org>
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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:46:26 +0000
From: W B Hacker <wbh@conducive.org>
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To: Ken Gunderson <kgunders@teamcool.net>
CC:  des@des.no
Subject: Re: spot on "nut job rant"...
References: <20080128144156.310f4f67.kgunders@teamcool.net>
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Ken Gunderson wrote:

*snip*

Ken,

'Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the
pig' (RAH).


That said, if a *one particular* pig was famous for many years for
being able to sing - moreover sing better than anyone ELSE - then when
*that* pig loses his way, it might be OK to remind him of what he has
forgotten.

But only once...

Thereafter one can either learn to sing - or adapt to a new new diet.

Bill