Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:41:56 -0700 From: Ken Gunderson To: Bill Hacker Cc: des@des.no Subject: spot on "nut job rant"... Message-Id: <20080128144156.310f4f67.kgunders@teamcool.net> Hey Bill: Was browsing -current and -stable to see if I could garner any clues about when 7.0 would make release (not planning to use because it's obviously not ready for prime time but apparently the ports tree will remain frozen ad nauseum for anything other than minor commits and it'd sure be nice to update things like Xfce...) when I ran across this: And I thought; "man, somebody finally has the balls to call it like it is", and was really looking forward to the response. Was seriously disappointed by des's chicken shit reply, however, wh/ironically enough pretty much proved your thesis. I've historically held a lot of respect for DES but this knocked him down a couple notches in my book. I'm tempted to subscribe to -current just so I can follow up. Not as a developer, obviously, but as someone who's been a long time user - since "back in the day" with 2.x when JKH himself my hand and helped get me sorted out on a few essentials (hhmm... wonder if that's still archived somewhere??). It's been a wonderful journey. I've gained much Unix expertise in the ensuing years through FreeBSD - having experience with "real" Unix helped me outshine the Linux weenies when I was hired on at HP. Now, however, I am investing serious effort into learning Solaris. Why might this be? Because I am fsck'ing tired of freebsd-stable being beta software. Especially w.r.t. file system type issues that Dillion was citing. My, my, my, how times have changed. I realize, that posting to the list would be a complete waste because they've become a little club of Arrogant Bastards: But not really. I've had correspondence with many and they're basically a bunch of nice guys, dedicated to forwarding FreeBSD. But something has gone wrong somewhere since most of the old guard either left or retired. Anyhow, hope this finds you well. And I hope 7.0 get released before spring. Judging by the bug reports, that's probably a bit overly optimistic so ports tree will remain frozen. I think FBSD needs to get off the overly ambitious quarterly release cycle (when was the last time a release was not months behind schedule?) and onto something that is more sustainable, e.g. OBSD bi-annual. DES, I am cc'ing you on this because, ultimately, I love FreeBSD and, as a long time user, hope you at least ponder this a bit. I'm fiercely loyal type of guy - and if I'm basically looking to bail on FBSD what's that say about some newbie who's just taking a look see? I mean, just look at all the problems reported on -stable with 6.3. This is supposed to be FreeBSD not Linux!! -- Best regards, Ken Gunderson Q: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. A: Why is putting a reply at the top of the message frowned upon? Message-ID: <479E5B42.7090508@conducive.org> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:46:26 +0000 From: W B Hacker To: Ken Gunderson CC: des@des.no Subject: Re: spot on "nut job rant"... References: <20080128144156.310f4f67.kgunders@teamcool.net> In-Reply-To: <20080128144156.310f4f67.kgunders@teamcool.net> Ken Gunderson wrote: *snip* Ken, 'Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the pig' (RAH). That said, if a *one particular* pig was famous for many years for being able to sing - moreover sing better than anyone ELSE - then when *that* pig loses his way, it might be OK to remind him of what he has forgotten. But only once... Thereafter one can either learn to sing - or adapt to a new new diet. Bill