[extracted from my IMAP spool] [edited for readability; no text removed or added] [original unedited file at /morons/ntpadmin.raw] Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:19:31 -0500 (EST) From: ntpadmin@oc9.com To: Dag-Erling Smørgrav Subject: Re: [time] DNS trouble ahead In-Reply-To: <86ejc2ydz2.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: References: <86odb7yw4b.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86hcgzyvst.fsf@ds4.des.no> <200801272050.PAA09391@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <86ejc2ydz2.fsf@ds4.des.no> On Mon, 28 Jan 2008, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > der Mouse writes: >> Why would you ever expect anything else? Seems to me that if you use >> the same name, getting the same address would be unsurprising at the >> very least. > > Because of something called round-robin DNS, and the fact that it worked > fine for years until a few days ago. > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smørgrav - des@des.no People on this list, at least the big talkers have what we could call the OPPOSITE of an "open-mind". They often reply as if they were some kind of overlords and that attitude allows them to disregard a problem by declaring it irrelevant and by blaming the stupidity of the user, the quality of his network connection and what not etc... I wouldn't waste anymore time debating on the timekeeper list about that topic if I was you. I just want to let you know that I appreciated your remarks about lib bind that seems to now cache results on a process basis. I will have to keep my eyes open for that in my applications and make sure it doesn't impact anything. If I run into problems, I will remember your post about that topic. I also believe some distro come with the default configuration you mentioned. I am not sure, but I think I remember seeing it somewhere. e.g. pool.ntp.org pool.ntp.org pool.ntp.org But always remember that it has been declared irrelevant by the timekeeper list overlords and that there is nothing you can do about it. That's the way things work around here ;-) Cheers, > _______________________________________________ > timekeepers mailing list > timekeepers@fortytwo.ch > https://fortytwo.ch/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/timekeepers > Louis http://blogtech.oc9.com http://www.pool.ntp.org/scores/207.236.226.149 Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:32:45 -0500 (EST) From: ntpadmin@oc9.com To: des@des.no Subject: Re: [time] DNS trouble ahead In-Reply-To: <479D35C4.4070006@nodomain.org> Message-ID: References: <86odb7yw4b.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86hcgzyvst.fsf@ds4.des.no> <200801272050.PAA09391@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <86ejc2ydz2.fsf@ds4.des.no> <479D35C4.4070006@nodomain.org> On Mon, 28 Jan 2008, Tony Hoyle wrote: > Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: >> >> Because of something called round-robin DNS, and the fact that it worked >> fine for years until a few days ago. >> > Any kind of caching server will need the numeric prefix. This has been > true for as long as I've been using the pool - a year at least, and will > have been true for as long as caching DNS has existed. > > Round robin DNS is different. That's where there are multiple A records > for the same name. The resolver has the choice of returning the same > address for multiple queries or returning different ones. This is not > how the pool works. Bla, bla, bla, this is not how the pool works. Therefore your comments are irreleveant ! ;-) You can solve any problem really quickly with that attitude. ;-) Cheers, > > Tony > _______________________________________________ > timekeepers mailing list > timekeepers@fortytwo.ch > https://fortytwo.ch/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/timekeepers > Louis http://blogtech.oc9.com http://www.pool.ntp.org/scores/207.236.226.149 Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:36:06 -0500 (EST) From: ntpadmin@oc9.com To: Dag-Erling Smørgrav Subject: Re: [time] DNS trouble ahead In-Reply-To: <86wspuwrje.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: References: <86odb7yw4b.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86hcgzyvst.fsf@ds4.des.no> <200801272050.PAA09391@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <86ejc2ydz2.fsf@ds4.des.no> <479D35C4.4070006@nodomain.org> <86wspuwrje.fsf@ds4.des.no> On Mon, 28 Jan 2008, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Tony Hoyle writes: >> Any kind of caching server will need the numeric prefix. This has >> been true for as long as I've been using the pool - a year at least, >> and will have been true for as long as caching DNS has existed. >> >> Round robin DNS is different. That's where there are multiple A >> records for the same name. The resolver has the choice of returning >> the same address for multiple queries or returning different ones. >> This is not how the pool works. > > My logs prove you wrong. > > In any case, I wonder if the ntpd authors would be open to the idea of > adding a command-line option that causes it to use all results returned > by getaddrinfo() instead of just the first one, and / or one that causes > it to regularly check DNS for any changes. No chances in 1,000 years, the ntp list is even less "open-minded" than the timekeepers list. They are even quicker to blame troubles on others. For them ntpd is just perfect as it is. You will wander what bit me but I wish you will come to understand I am not so far from the truth ;-)) > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smørgrav - des@des.no > _______________________________________________ > timekeepers mailing list > timekeepers@fortytwo.ch > https://fortytwo.ch/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/timekeepers > Louis http://blogtech.oc9.com http://www.pool.ntp.org/scores/207.236.226.149 From: Dag-Erling Smørgrav To: ntpadmin@oc9.com Subject: Re: [time] DNS trouble ahead References: <86odb7yw4b.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86hcgzyvst.fsf@ds4.des.no> <200801272050.PAA09391@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <86ejc2ydz2.fsf@ds4.des.no> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:25:23 +0100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <863ashvrws.fsf@ds4.des.no> ntpadmin@oc9.com writes: > People on this list, at least the big talkers have what we could call > the OPPOSITE of an "open-mind". Actually, I think you pretty much described yourself there. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - des@des.no From: Dag-Erling Smørgrav To: ntpadmin@oc9.com Subject: Re: [time] DNS trouble ahead References: <86odb7yw4b.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86hcgzyvst.fsf@ds4.des.no> <200801272050.PAA09391@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <86ejc2ydz2.fsf@ds4.des.no> <479D35C4.4070006@nodomain.org> <86wspuwrje.fsf@ds4.des.no> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:30:41 +0100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <86y7a9ud3i.fsf@ds4.des.no> ntpadmin@oc9.com writes: > Dag-Erling Smørgrav writes: > > In any case, I wonder if the ntpd authors would be open to the idea > > of adding a command-line option that causes it to use all results > > returned by getaddrinfo() instead of just the first one, and / or > > one that causes it to regularly check DNS for any changes. > No chances in 1,000 years, You are wrong; as was pointed out to me later in the thread, some of this is already implemented and the rest is being discussed for the next version (no consensus on the correct semantics yet). > You will wander what bit me but I wish you will come to understand I > am not so far from the truth ;-)) I have read enough of your posts on the list to understand perfectly well what bit you: you are an arse, people finally lost their patience with you, and you decided to blame them for it rather than reconsider your own behaviour. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - des@des.no Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:36:03 -0500 (EST) From: ntpadmin@oc9.com To: Dag-Erling Smørgrav Subject: Re: [time] DNS trouble ahead In-Reply-To: <86y7a9ud3i.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: References: <86odb7yw4b.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86hcgzyvst.fsf@ds4.des.no> <200801272050.PAA09391@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <86ejc2ydz2.fsf@ds4.des.no> <479D35C4.4070006@nodomain.org> <86wspuwrje.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86y7a9ud3i.fsf@ds4.des.no> On Mon, 28 Jan 2008, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > > I have read enough of your posts on the list to understand perfectly > well what bit you: you are an arse, people finally lost their patience > with you, and you decided to blame them for it rather than reconsider > your own behaviour. > If everybody on the Internet was calling me a arse, then I would ask myself questions. But it is not the case. As an example I have an "excellent" karma on slashdot, which is exactly the opposite of an arse. Note that slashdot has many more people to judge you than the narrow minded timekeepers list has. Since I am only an arse on the ntp list, I am not worrying to much about who the arses are;-) As a matter of fact, I even unsubscibed from the timekeepers list but I still get the messages, should I report them as spam ? TODO: 1) Try to unsubscibe again from the timekeeper list, nothing to see there. 2) Stop replying to any messages from the list if that doesn't work. Funny thing is that I replied to you to Thank You for the tip on lib bind while others were almost questionning your stupidity for using such a configuration. You guys are almost like the church of scientology ;-) I might set up a site some day just so the rest of the Internet can laugh at you guys as I do ;-) Some on slashdot already are (FYI: a score of 5 means that almost everybody in the very large slashdot population agrees ) : http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=291961&cid=20524475 http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=291961&cid=20524477 This one is almost exactly what I suggested on the timekeepers list, only to earn an "arse" nickname (score of 5 too... ): http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=291961&cid=20524705 http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=291961&cid=20525557 http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=291961&cid=20525471 http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=291961&cid=20527351 http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=291961&cid=20524893 http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=291961&cid=20525059 http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=291961&cid=20526257 http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=291961&cid=20545523 You guys live in another world sorry, ;-)) Cheers, ls From: Dag-Erling Smørgrav To: ntpadmin@oc9.com Subject: Re: [time] DNS trouble ahead References: <86odb7yw4b.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86hcgzyvst.fsf@ds4.des.no> <200801272050.PAA09391@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <86ejc2ydz2.fsf@ds4.des.no> <479D35C4.4070006@nodomain.org> <86wspuwrje.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86y7a9ud3i.fsf@ds4.des.no> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:18:56 +0100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <86y7a9sqqn.fsf@ds4.des.no> ntpadmin@oc9.com writes: > If everybody on the Internet was calling me a arse, then I would ask > myself questions. But it is not the case. As an example I have an > "excellent" karma on slashdot, which is exactly the opposite of an > arse. Sorry if my spelling is off a bit, I'm lauging so hard. I really can't imagine how anyone above the age of 15 could think his Slashdot karma proves *anything*. FWIW, my Slashdot karma is also "excellent". It's really not that hard. > I might set up a site some day just so the rest of the Internet can > laugh at you guys as I do ;-) Great idea, I think I'll post this exchange on my website. Just give me a minute to HTMLize it... > Some on slashdot already are (FYI: a score of 5 means that almost > everybody in the very large slashdot population agrees ) : No, it means that four or five people thought you wrote something interesting and nobody cared enough to contradict them. I wish you the best of luck. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - des@des.no Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:50:29 -0500 (EST) From: ntpadmin@oc9.com To: Dag-Erling Smørgrav Subject: Re: [time] DNS trouble ahead In-Reply-To: <86y7a9sqqn.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: References: <86odb7yw4b.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86hcgzyvst.fsf@ds4.des.no> <200801272050.PAA09391@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <86ejc2ydz2.fsf@ds4.des.no> <479D35C4.4070006@nodomain.org> <86wspuwrje.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86y7a9ud3i.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86y7a9sqqn.fsf@ds4.des.no> Hi Dag-Erling, Whatever you say, you must be right, I do not really care anymore ;-) Anyways, I am 53 years old I have quite a bit of experience with resistance to changes as in: "ntp pool". To summarize : Pool members, at least the big talkers on the list view the pool as the ultimate solution and are aiming at making the pool bigger, getting more servers into it and raise its visibility. They are not open-minded at all to any solution for ntp that would lower the importance of the pool or that would cause it to cease to exist because it wouldn't be needed anymore. Facts: Most people outside the pool that understand how network connectivity work agree that the pool is not a solution to the ntp problem, it is a temporary, partial, ugly, patch to the real problem of stratum 1 servers getting more and more requests. Many solutions have been expressed in the slashdot threads I forwarded to you. None of these postings were from me or from anybody that I know. So your: "No, it means that four or five people thought you wrote something interesting and nobody cared enough to contradict them." is irrelevant since we never talked about any of my posts being rated 5 of slashdot, you don't even know if I ever got a post rated 5 on slashdot. You will find the same a little everywhere if you open your mind and learn to look at the problem from outside your pool perspective which I am trained to do in general. The pool is fun but it is only a temporary patch to the problem in my view until someone decides to do it right. Conclusion: Any exchanges that have people call you an "arse" is at the 15 year old level and should cease immediately. Have you ever seen me calling other "arses" in my posts ?? Ultimately, calling other "arses" is a sign of a narrow-minded person; you do not think like us, therefore you are an "arse". No real effort is put in trying to understand what I am saying. I do not have time to try to unsubscribe from the timekeepers list again I will just void the email address, so I am not tempted to reply to any messages from the timekeepers list again (even if for thanking a guy for a tip on lib bind, ok with a few sarcastic comments along the way ;-). Do not be afraid, I never read the HTML digests so you won't hear from me again, I already stopped a while ago posting publicly in the timekeepers list. I already hate myself for wasting so much time on the timekeepers list, enough is enough, this has got to stop. You still haven't convinced me that I was an arse although ;-) I sincerely wish you good luck in your pool projects and in your life in general ;-) Cheers, On Mon, 28 Jan 2008, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > ntpadmin@oc9.com writes: >> If everybody on the Internet was calling me a arse, then I would ask >> myself questions. But it is not the case. As an example I have an >> "excellent" karma on slashdot, which is exactly the opposite of an >> arse. > > Sorry if my spelling is off a bit, I'm lauging so hard. > > I really can't imagine how anyone above the age of 15 could think his > Slashdot karma proves *anything*. > > FWIW, my Slashdot karma is also "excellent". It's really not that hard. > >> I might set up a site some day just so the rest of the Internet can >> laugh at you guys as I do ;-) > > Great idea, I think I'll post this exchange on my website. Just give me > a minute to HTMLize it... > >> Some on slashdot already are (FYI: a score of 5 means that almost >> everybody in the very large slashdot population agrees ) : > > No, it means that four or five people thought you wrote something > interesting and nobody cared enough to contradict them. > > I wish you the best of luck. > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smørgrav - des@des.no >